[13788] Agenda for hacking week-- [13791] First - A suitable name. [13793] emc hackfest [13794] EMC coding week [13795] EMC-MONDAY, tuesday, wednesday ...  Each in a smaller font;) [13798] ;-) [13799] EMCathon [13800] EMC Bug Hunt [13801] Bug_Swat [13802] Don't think we want to give the other groups that much ammo (refering to bugs event). [13805] I'm still thinking that we will make some distinction between Monday and the rest. [13806] right [13807] would prefer to keep hack or hacking out [13808] monday will be everybody around a table, talking [13809] That did seem to work well last year. [13812] the rest will be everybody in front of their machines, coding (with discussions as needed) [13813] Allright.  In spite of no name.  Smithy will welcome us. [13814] cool - great work ray! [13815] how long for ? [13816] As much space as we need. [13819] As much network as we can use. [13820] so all we need to bring is a PC, monitor, and n/w cable. [13821] I don't know if they will have their CNC lathe in house by then but the mill and 3in1 will be there. [13822] stepper or servo ? [13823] I can scare up several PC's for those at a disadvantage. [13826] and I can bring a few keyboards [13827] what about a printer? I have a LJII [13828] Brother 1240 [13829] is that laser or ink? [13830] printer would be great - Even better if one computer can act as a print server. [13833] laser [13834] I have a HP jet-direct interface for my LJII, so it can be a network printer (good news) [13835] I'm thinking that we set up a server among us with a gateway to the T1. [13836] with a local CVS sercer... [13837] (bad news) I've never gotten it to print correctly under Linux - cuts off the edge of the page (about 5mm) [13840] jmkasunich: You should try cups. [13841] ray_: eventually - just another thing on the todo list [13842] I know that feeling. [13843] The local CVS.  Do we need it or should we work right into the SF repository? [13844] so we have printer(s), I have a 16 port switch incase smithy doesn't have enough drops, we have network connections... [13847] I'd favor the SF repository [13848] If we work right into SF, that might put us up there in the top ten for the week. [13849] also, there might be those who simply can't make it to Michigan, but would be able to participate online [13850] Top tem would get us noticed. [13851] a local CVS would be marginally faster [13854] and handy if SF goes off-line. [13855] While I was there, I downloaded a complete copy in less than a minute. [13856] how long to set up local cvs? and for each user to switch his working copy from SF to the local one [13857] already have CVS running on a box here [13858] seconds to do a checkout [13861] Oh, just set up a different working copy for the duration... [13862] I guess that works [13863] Then commit to SF on a regular basis during? [13864] you'd need a single point of connection between the local and SF repository, right? [13865] I do like John's thought of working with folk at a distance. [13868] Since the T1 is on all the time, we could use this IRC. [13869] speed probably won't be much of a factor, but SF downtime would be a bummer [13870] syncing the two repositories would be a pain afterwards.... But that can be eased with a bit of Bash(ing) [13871] keeping them in sync during wouldn't be easy then... [13872] hmmm, this might seem like a kludge, but... [13875] tiresome rather than difficult.. [13876] Seems to me that we will have folk working at various levels throughout the fest. [13877] what if one box had two working copies, one checked out of SF, one out of local [13878] How about that for a name EMCfest. [13879] What about work from real CVS, but keep a local backup synced and ready. [13882] every so often, do a cvs up on the local, cp the working tree to the SF one (use a script to avoid copying the CVS dirs), then cvs commit on SF side [13883] that's the way I would do it.. [13884] How bout the other way round.  Work in the SF and mirror every hour. [13885] That would be better. [13886] then most folks would be using the same working copies they use at home [13889] although, I don't think an hourly update would be required. [13890] only if SF goes down would we need to checkout new copies from the local [13891] actually, working in SF and mirroring would/could cause lost work if SF goes down (or at least work that is stuck on one machine for the duration of the downtime) [13892] working on the local and mirroring to SF would avoid that risk [13893] That's why I was thinking of hourly mirror.  You only loose the last bits. [13896] to be honest, most folk would only commit when they have something they think works, or they want others to test, etc... [13897] a local CVS kept up to date wth SF... IF SF goes down, checkout from local, copy the working files across to the new dir, and do a local commit before continuing. [13898] I'm guessing that we will have folk testing stuff with machines while others are massaging code. [13899] hmmm... should I bring the compile farm rack? [13900] would give us a chance to set up some automated scripts. [13903] That might be a good idea. [13904] it's not at big, might as well do it... [13905] Hack - compile - test on machines. [13906] does anyone have some servo/encoder test rigs ? [13907] yes... the farm machines can be ssh'ed, so anybody can login and run test compiles, etc [13910] That works. [13911] encoder yes... I have three stepper motors, a 3 chan xylotex dirver w/ps, and a jogwheel, mounted in a small chassis [13912] I've got two Vigilant cards and an STG II [13913] Smithy's mill has encoders with Gecko drives. [13914] But so far we are still using step-n-direction. [13917] I have a dumpster picked servo amp still at work, and enough stuff here to add a ps and motor to it.. also have spare encoders.. [13919] really wanted to do some work on true servo systems [13920] but would have to cobble together a chassis - I sure I could do that by then [13921] you want analog input, encoder output, right? [13922] Yes I think true servo is essential.  At least on a table if not a machine. [13925] well this would just be a motor, not a screw or table [13926] +/-10V and encoder feedback. [13927] pro: can't run it into the stops  con: can't really tell what it's doing [13928] with an index pulse and some limit/home swithces in another box. [13929] I can't make promises, but I'll see if I can put something together [13932] do you need an amp ? [13933] Let's post a note to the lists and see if we can get a full servo machine there. [13934] you mean manually operated switches (fake the limits)? [13935] yup. [13936] can do that [13939] jmkasunich: How about I send you a STG card now so you can get started. [13940] amp - maybe...  I have something at work, don't recall what it is... [13941] Hi Matt. [13942] matt: maybe in a month, plate is too full now. [13943] Hi Ray! [13946] I _will_ take you up on that, so I can write a STG hal driver [13947] jmkasunich: I'll bet! [13948] unless Matt has something floating around. [13949] I think I also have a very small servo motor, that could use a small amp [13950] is digging in boxes [13953] I've got a couple of sets of PPAC but Jon will have to update the chips. [13954] I've got a rack of Servo Dynamics amp that run off thin line (110), but they're pretty big... [13955] I have some servo stuff that could come IF there is a ride back to Wash DC area by, say, Wednesday evening. [13956] Hey, your car's big, Matt! [13957] looks like I'll be flying into Dulles.. [13960] true... [13961] I have s clifton precision motor with encoder, about 2" dia (50mm) x 4" long (100mm) [13962] If you want me to pick you up Paul, try for BWI [13963] also a pittmann about half that size [13964] (4 of the pittmann ones) [13967] both wth tachs ? [13968] encoders, no analog tachs [13969] The stuff I have is 3 each NEMA 34 brushless with associated amps and cables. Not mounted on anything. [13970] I've got 3 little pittmans with encoders. [13971] I've also got 3 nema42 SEM servos w/encoders [13974] I've got 4 burshless amps. [13975] brushless? as in AC servo? [13976] I have some AC servo motors... [13977] ranging from NEMA42 (sort of) to NEMA_huge (5HP or so) [13978] Oh now we're into mine's bigger than yours. [13981] no - I was actually thinking about trying to get the big ones to work with conventional VFD drive and use them for a spindle motor [13982] (no position control, just speed) [13983] back burner project [13984] what else do we want?  I can bring an o'scope [13985] No. I'd say that spindle is a near front burner part of this.   [13988] well syncing axes to spindle, yes... but that doesn't care what is actually driving the spindle, could be an ordinary AC induction motor [13989] speaking of spindle sync... [13990] Right. [13991] Matt - remember those hollow encoders I passed thru you to NIST? [13992] think we could get those on a sherline at the emcfest? [13995] We can do this with Sherlines, Simthy, and Grizz or Harbor F. [13996] jmkasunich: yes [13997] fred has them now, right? [13998] Smithy's got some manual mills and lathes in the shop. [13999] jmkasunich: I can pick up the machines from nist if you like [14002] If we need machine work. [14003] ray_: I think the encoders are already mounted to the machines (better be by now) [14004] jmkasunich: they're already fitted 1 lathe/1 ill [14005] matt: if Fred doesn't mind, then yes, we want them - perfect testbeds for threading and rigid tapping [14006] jmkasunich: I maen 1 MILL, not ill ... [14009] ;-) [14010] jmkasunich: no problem I'm sure [14011] well maybe not rigid tapping - how slow does a sherline spindle go? [14012] pretty slow [14013] 2 speed. [14016] slow enough and torquey enough to tap [14017] OK... So it looks like we will have an assortment of computers & machine tools plus test beds to use. [14018] down to about 0 [14019] ray_: like back gears, or electronic only? [14020] yes, I think so, not 1/2-13 though ;) [14023] Two belt pulleys. [14024] cool... so say 8-32 tapping would probably work... [14025] The real test is 2-56 [14026] yes, you might go as far as 1/4-20 in AL [14027] cool - I'd rather test with taps that will stall the motor in the event of a bug... once we have it working then test with 2-56 [14030] Coward! [14031] Do you think Abdul from Vital Systems would be joining us ? [14032] no, I think the real test is 6-32, they're the worst... [14033] too cheap to buy taps by the dozen [14034] We could certainly ask! [14037] jmkasunich: Got it.   [14038] tell him I'll help him write a HAL driver for his card [14039] just call me "driver guy" [14040] thinks the invite ought to come from the Chairman. [14041] Abdul is about ready to start testing his board. [14044] wonders who Paul means... [14045] knows mshaver knows who.... [14046] I also added an 8 Channel A/D on board at the last minute. [14047] so now the configuration is [14048] 8 encoders, [14051] 8 D/A [14052] 8 A/D [14053] 96+ IO [14054] Note from Abdul above. [14055] knows he knows I know ... ;) [14058] wow - must be a huge cable coming out the back [14059] land lines to the shuttle. [14060] does he have signal conditioning, like optos, etc, or are the IO strictly logic levels? [14061] don't know. [14062] Let's summarize a bit for the record. [14065] http://www.vitalsystem.com/SiteDat/MOTENC.JPG [14072] OK, jmkasunich. [14073] watcher, abdul is http://www.vitalsystem.com/SiteDat/MOTENC.JPG [14074] waits with baited breath for the summary [14075] Machine tool test stations include stepper sherline mill, lathe. [14076] Smithy 2 in 1 with steppers. [14079] Some asortment of servos [14080] Spindle drives with feedback? [14081] sherline mill and lathe with encoders on spindles [14082] I don't really know how much actual development we'll be able to do there, due to the short time period (3 days). Would it be wiser to spend the time going through the code base and tracing out the flow of things to give everyone a better understanding of what's going on in there? Also, we could decide who's going to do what. [14083] thought it was for three weeks. [14086] good point matt [14087] Before you arrived, Matt, we talked about a difference between monday and tuesday ... [14088] What did we decide about the sf repository and local versions? [14089] If Monday is going to be the same format as last year, that only gives us two days of coding. [14090] Use SF, but keep a local CVS as backup. [14093] Okay. [14094] monday is at southgate and the rest is at smithy, right? [14095] The network then includes a gateway to T1 with a local router to that. [14096] or should all three days be at smithy? [14097] Any local box to the router. [14100] And a local printer.  jmk's and ray's. [14101] at southgate, we'll have users and integrators as well as coders... that is a _meeting_ [14102] jmk to supply the compile farm. [14104] I was hoping that we'd move to smithy on Sunday evening. [14106] I kind of like that, _but_, what do we lose by not having the meeting with users and integrators? [14109] I'd like to see us have the pre-dinner at a restaurant named Webers. [14110] Integrators may feel ill at ease at a "competitors" location. [14112] could we have the meeting during the NAMES show (more convenient for user/integ) [14113] Smithy is a machine tool supllier ? [14114] We don't really have any directly competing commercial vendors, do we. [14117] yes, three in one machines [14118] No competing machinery companies yet, but do we want to discourage them? [14119] jmkasunich: I'm hoping to spend most of my time out in MI talking and doing emc tech stuff. I'm almost thinking of not trying to exhibit anything, although that's probably the wrong attitude [14120] I have nothing to exhibit, so I'm with you [14121] Uh the NAMES get together is a different "task" that the EMC get together. [14124] ray has a point. we do spend time talking general cnc stuff, especially user feedback & ideas [14125] Mike J? [14126] Who are we trying to get to come to EMC Monday? Would not most attendees already be coming to NAMES and thus be staying nearby and know the location? [14127] I'm looking forward to meeting ballendo myself... [14128] Integrators and non-dev EMC users could join us for an informal dinner ? [14131] here's how I understand it:  sat/sun is "show emc to the world", emc "monday" is/was "plan the future of emc with users/integrators", emcfest is "work on emc" [14132] Wot... Ballendo coming ?? [14133] Like Sat evening last year? [14134] Bal.. don't hold your breath. [14135] jmkasunich: good summary. [14138] Most of last year's EMC-Mon was code talk and not much on future & direction as I recall. [14139] so do we want emc "monday" on monday? or should we squeeze it into the sat/sun somewhere and spend monday on the emcfest? [14140] Last year HAL was future. [14141] If we say that monday-wed is emcfest, we may loose some integrators and thinkers that we really need. [14142] I think we could squeeze the Monday agenda into Fri/Sat/Sun [14145] Several of the guys that came to monday last year were not coders but they influenced the direction of monday. [14146] jmkasunich: ditto from me, except, I'm not sure we need too much direction on the future. It's more like we have to figure out HOW to get from where we are now TO the future. [14147] simpler but related question - where do we want to be monday, southgate or smithy? [14148] Any chance for a "late" Sunday version of EMC Monday. [14149] ray_: was their influence good? [14152] I prefer Smithy.  I had to pay for southgate on monday last and was pissed at the interruptions and broken promises. [14153] even if we have emc monday on monday, that only lasts several hours - if we are at smithy, we can go right into the fest, if still at southgate, we spend the evening moving and don't get serious intil tues [14154] so monday is at smithy then... [14155] I'm with ray & jml [14156] I [14159] OOPS [14160] ditto [14161] next question - should the emc "monday" meeting be at southgate sat/sun for the convenience of the users/integ, or at smithy later [14162] I'm seeing at time when we face each other around a table like last year. [14163] sat evening, sun evening? [14166] We should be ready with maps and handouts about EMC Monday available during NAMES. I can also put something on the LinuxCNC web site. [14167] and then when we make a U shaped table and all work on the code. [14168] If a sat/sun meet is desired, maybe the show coords can give us a room for an hour or two when there's no seminars going on. [14169] how about Fred - which day(s) if any will he be there? [14170] i'll have to ask, didn't have a chance last week, I kept him on the phone quite a while on code stuff [14173] I'd favour a two Hour session at Southgate on the Sunday afternoon. [14174] agreed - don't drag users, etc up to smithy, some won't bother coming [14175] gives us time to advertise Sat/Sun [14176] and still have a quiet Dinner Sat evening. [14177] yep, plus I see it as a chance to get ideas/suggestions/feedbac/criticism from users (especially mach1/2 users) [14180] another nomination for an invite.... Jim Fong [14181] We should contact Roland about the seminar times. [14182] serial PIC guy? [14183] Jim is a detroit resident. [14184] paul_c: Robin? [14187] I met both he and his brother last year. [14188] robin's a maybe, depends on finances [14189] I hope he can make it [14190] There is also a "real PC-CNC" pioneer there, George Tecos. [14191] I may be wrong, but I have this mental picture of Robin as an English country gentleman, you know, gun, dog, hunting jacket, pipe... [14194] has met Robin... [14195] I had that image for Paul, until the Chicago airport! [14196] had already seen Ray's photo (in the post office) [14197] I think Steve's suggestion about advertising for EMC-Monday and EMC-fest is a good one. [14198] The EMC-fest publicity needs to be limited to the mailing lists IMO [14201] It might serve us well to have an EMC tri-fold for pickup at NAMES and a note on the back re the stuff at SMithy. [14202] emc-fest is gonna be pretty much developers (and developer wanna-be's) only - we don't want to discourage wanna-bes, but don't need/want non-serious folks [14203] so do we need to advertise it on any handouts ? [14204] Right and if we have the test beds set up a machinist or two would be a great addition. [14205] else it would just become three more days of names - show and tell [14208] I would seek to limit the attendance at the coding days to those who intend to either code or test, like jmk just said as I was typing this... [14209] Invites to the wanna-bes at the EMC-Mon session (on Sunday) ? [14210] yes [14211] I'd think that we'd want to allow folk with soldering irons in for the extra days as well. [14212] actually for most folks, if they only learn about an event on monday at the show, they will have travel plan issues anyway.  the real advertising for this stuff is on the lists/groups beforehand [14215] I guess that I'm seeing more than one kind of thing, developer and integrator.   [14216] ray_: yes, gearheads, sparkies, and bitheads can all contribute [14217] I think anyone with a slodering iron can be considered "serious" [14218] We'll check for irons at the door. [14219] be back in five - Caffine fix. [14222] admission tickets - toolbits, soldering iron, linux box [14225] C C++ Tickle [14226] OK, that means I can get in if I bring my soldering iron even if I don't know how to drive Linux?  8-) [14227] sure [14228] last year they let me in, and I didn't know linux [14231] I was trying to work it around to where they would let you in, Steve. [14232] You know.  As I think about it we might begin the transition from monday discussion to fest whenever we run out of discussion. [14233] true - that might even be at different times for different subgroups [14234] As a part of the discussion, I would very much like to see us develop an EMC master document.  The big picture that we talked about last week. [14235] A text that tells us what the EMC is and is about. [14238] I think we all understand that we're trying to avoid a siuation where we avoid spending 3 days debating with and educating folks that won't ever actually do anything. [14239] text and drawings - block diagrams [14240] In a conversation with Matt recently, he summarized the gui and hmi stuff as "stateless." [14241] illustrating how the software works, what functions are in what files, etc. [14242] To me this is an example of one item in that document. [14245] whiteboards - does smithy have them? [14246] Don't know.  We will need them. [14247] or big tablets of paper on an easel [14248] paper has the advantage that you can keep it for later [14249] True.  We could also take digital pics of whiteboard.  Or get one of those e ones. [14252] Good Point! We really needed that last year. I like paper - I volunteer to go get it, unless someone else has got some [14253] Then paper it is. [14254] who volunteers to organize?  keep a list of who's bringing what, etc. [14255] Digital camera, distribute "copies" electronically over our local area network to those who brought computers. [14256] Perhaps we could post copies of pics as done on linuxcnc.org and make them available to IRC folk during the fest. [14259] I can bring dig cam, but I don't have a convenient way to get the info into my Linux box [14260] I think we might also burn the "proceedings" to CDs. [14261] Not to worry "someone" will bring an NT box with camera support. [14262] Mandrake 9.1 has it for lots of cameras. [14263] I plugged one of SWMBO's into usb and an icon popped up. [14266] my camera uses smart media, and I have a "flashpath" adapter that fits into a 3.5 floppy slot.  but AFAIK, the flashpath is win only [14267] I have a Sony cam that uses floppies ;) [14268] That's what they said about my winmodems. [14269] and records .jpgs [14270] I would love to have a linux driver for the flashpath [14273] I noticed no replies to my request for volunteer organizer.... ;-) [14274] Okay another direction.  Sunday evening dinner at Webers? [14275] It's about a half mile from Smithy. [14276] ok by mee [14277] They have at least three dining areas.  Might be more. [14281] hello all [14282] Then of course, there is Les who will need an invite [14283] haha [14284] Hi Les. [14285] hey [14288] talking about EMC-Fest [14289] ah [14290] les: you'll come to NAMES, won't you? [14291] a few days hacking after NAMES [14292] I might this time... I have not before [14295] all of a sudden I got super busy with the cnc [14296] that "ten commandment" thing took off [14297] making hundreds of them [14298] but I am dying here [14299] have to run at 60ipm due to emc [14302] SmartDisk have released a linux driver back in April 2000 [14303] paul_c: thanks - didn't know that [14304] les: maybe we can work on the tp during the fest... [14305] in the meantime, I have two words for you... "multi-spindle" [14306] les, have you looked at the traj planner code yourself? [14309] yes... I am at 3 units per hour...should be 8 or so [14310] yes matt I have looked at it a lot [14311] really really hard to follow [14312] the reason I ask is that I need to make some changes to it to accomodate per axis acceleration [14313] that would be a very good thing [14316] I would like to run z much higher [14317] I also thought maybe I could figure out what's wrong [14318] I need the per axis accel to further improve rotary axes [14319] well trap blending works sometimes [14320] but then it breaks into exact stop mode [14323] sometimes I can run a program and it does not happen [14324] then next time it does [14325] it happens with widely spaced points [14326] and close together [14327] Other development news... Have a remote tkemc GUI running with the rcslib-redux. [14330] les: I wonder if the servo code is running out of points, or the traj planner is running out of input moves [14331] It is the planner for sure [14332] only three waypoints (or two segments) are required for the calcs [14333] how do you know? (I should have come down with fred...) [14334] I know because I have the entire algorithm right here in an old college textbook [14337] fred used the same book [14338] and the book says it'll do the things you're seeing? [14339] The math is dog simple really [14340] no... with trapezoidal trajectories with parqabolic blends there should be only centripedal accel [14341] parabolic [14344] les: did you say the problem is intermittent? as in sometimes it works, then later the exact same part program starts jerking around? [14345] yup [14346] that' [14347] we observed that [14348] that's bad [14351] yes [14352] thet's the part that's got me wondering... [14353] there must be something different between the two runs... some state info, buried deep within emc [14354] fred mutters "buffer or qeue problem" [14355] that's what I'm thinking too [14358] we observed it NOT happen on a first run after bringing up emc [14359] ah-ha! [14360] I wonder if we could "pre" traj plan, like we "pre" interpret [14361] then all later runs would do it [14362] so something that is inited correctly when emc starts isn't getting re-inited properly later [14365] well segmentqueue does that... up to the whole program [14366] but you could as well with trap [14367] although only 3 points are really needed [14368] jmkasunich: if you'd played with the "top end" as I have, you'd realize that anything is possible... [14369] n+1 points where n is the blend order [14372] mshaver: sounds like a house of cards [14373] parabolic= second order [14374] well the calcs are so spread out all over the place [14375] very hard to follow [14376] jmkasunich: It's more like the Winchester mansion with blind stairways and other strange features ;) [14379] haha [14380] I am going to bring up the source code and check something.. [14381] les: but if it _always_ works the first time, the core calcs must be correct.  if it _never_ works the 2,3,4th time, then something left over from the first time must be breaking it [14382] right [14383] while les is looking at the source... any more thoughts on emcfest? [14386] running some tests with NML, I found old messages would remain in memory and get picked up next time the test prog was run... [14387] perhaps the same is happening with the TP. [14388] yeah I get that all the time [14389] I think the sept 97 fix to tpruncycle by will may be key here [14390] So it looks like the init routines need to be more thorough with memory cleanup. [14393] I was gonig to call him next week about that... [14394] I've got a brief outline of the events.  Want it here or as a file? [14395] how about here, then it will be in the minutes when they are posted...   [14396]      test [14397]  I mean, I was going to call him next week about tpRunCycle [14400] Names is Friday April 23 through Sunday the 25th.  We need to prepare a handout for the session that will describe the emc and resources available with it and an advertisement for EMC-Monday and EMC-fest.  We will try to add an EMC specific seminar sometime on Sunday during NAMES. [14401] EMC-Sunday Evening April 25 [14402] There will be a relaxed sunday evening dinner at Webers in Ann Arbor.  I'll check on the cost of rooms and get back to the list.  During this dinner we will select the officers for next year. [14403] EMC-Monday [14404]     Location    Smithy Company [14407]                 117 Aprill Drive [14408]                 P.O. Box 1517 [14409]                 Ann Arbor Michigan, 48106-1517 [14410]     Format      Discussion [14411]     Topics      The Big Picture [14414]     Product     Draft paper [14415]                     EMC issues [14416]                     EMC Commandments [14417]                     EMC Code overview [14418]     Materials   Easel with lots of paper [14421]                 Chairs and Tables [14422] EMC-Fest [14423]     Location    Smithy Company [14424]     Format      Hacking, testing, and applications [14425]     Materials   Network, gateway to T1, and Print Servers [14428]                 Compile rack with network connections [14429]                 Stepper Machine Tools [14430]                     Mills with rotaries [14431]                     Lathes [14432]                     3 in 1 [14435]                 Servo Machine Tools if possible [14436]                     STG card [14437]                     PPAC set [14438]                     Vital [14439]                     Vigilant [14442]                 Servos on test bench [14443]                 Spindle feedback for rigid tapping [14444]                 PC's with EMC loaded. [14445] we'll want to re-visit the agenda in more detail as the time gets closer.  specific issues to discuss/work on, like threading, TP work, HAL driver development, etc. [14446] ray_: You're missing "Caffine enriched coffee" [14449] I'll also bring a few other IO cards along [14451] Sounds good to me.  We can expand, change this to suit our needs. [14456] I will need to post a request to Smithy so we will need to know about how many plan to attend. [14459] I'll take care of that on the lists. [14481] any "meeting" stuff left?